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TOPIC: Which M-113 Variant in Vietnam?

Which M-113 Variant in Vietnam? 11 Feb 2020 17:05 #1

Hi there.

I need to thin down my stash.

I have the old Tamiya M-113 kit with the troops on top and also have the old Tamiya M-113 ACAV variant.

My understanding is that those are both M-113 A1 variants and that the M-113 A2 was the basis for the Vietnam era M-113 APCs.

So, I do have a few A2 kits with interiors I can kitbash with the Tamiya kits to build a Vietnam A2 if those were used.

Thanks and cheers
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Which M-113 Variant in Vietnam? 11 Feb 2020 20:41 #2

Took a quick look in some books and found the basic timeline:

M113 - gasoline engine, introduced 1960
M113 ACAV - improved commander and crew gun position armour, introduced 1963
M113A1 - diesel engine, introduced 1964
M113A2 - improved cooling and suspension, introduced 1979
M113A3 - RISE upgrade, introduced 1987

Cheers,
Rich
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Which M-113 Variant in Vietnam? 11 Feb 2020 21:58 #3

Okay where did my Quick reply go? I'll make another reply and hope it lands okay.

For a Vietnam Conflict M-113 I should use the diesel engine from the A2 kit. Should I also use the larger fuel tank from the A2 kit?

What about the seating in the cargo area? Should I stay with the bench seats that ran along the inside of the sides of the vehicle? My A2 kits have bench seats that go in the center of the vehicle facing either side of the vehicle. Images I've seen and what I remember is the seats were not in the center of the vehicle.

Thanks again for the help as it's greatly appreciated.

Cheers
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Which M-113 Variant in Vietnam? 11 Feb 2020 23:26 #4

It depends what year your model will depict. The gas powered M113s were used by some units, such as 2d Battalion, 47th Infantry (Mechanized), 9th Infantry Division up until mid 1968. Diesel M113A1s replaced the gas powered tracks as they wore out or were damaged beyond repair. Some units deployed with M113A1s, so you need to decide what unit you want to depict and when in order to determine which version.

You van take a look at my work with M113s as reference if you'd like.

Cheers,
James
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Which M-113 Variant in Vietnam? 11 Feb 2020 23:32 #5

Oh, yeah...the bench seats, if not replaced by a unit's SOP,would be along the sides not in the center. The seat platform the was under the cupola was removed in Vietnam as was the heater. The TC usually sat on a board and leaned back on the hatch. The drivers hatch and the crew compartment hatches should remain open.
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Which M-113 Variant in Vietnam? 11 Feb 2020 23:58 #6

Thanks big heaps there James. That's great to know. I really like this site because the vast majority of people here reply on topic to questions.

When you say the TC sat on a board. Was that board set across the opening of the hatch?

It looks like i have everything I need to build my Vietnam Era tracks.

Cheers
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Which M-113 Variant in Vietnam? 12 Feb 2020 08:50 #7

You're welcome.

The board did go across the opening of the hatch. In this link, it shows how I placed it on a model of a track that did not have the full ACAV set of shields. The crew of this particular track (I model actual vehicles people I know or am in contact with), just used the board for a seat.

www.modelersalliance.org/forum/james-o-l...-m113-acav?start=120

If you look through the rest of the thread, you will see the project from start to finish and it may give you some ideas about how to go about your interior. Here's a photo of the figure I added to the model that shows how the gunner would sit on the board:



My friend, Bill Rambow's crew used a board as well, but they covered it with a sandbag of softer sandy dirt to make it a bit more comfortable. The gunner or TC would sit on this, lean back on the hatch, and place their feet against the mount for the .50. In my diorama, "Breakfast in the Boonies" which depicts Bill's track and squad, you will see some of the details that make his track a bit unique. They had the 106mm Recoilless Rifle mounted on the right side, an ACAV shield on the left side for an M60, and then only had the tub part for the commander's cupola. The reason they did not have the big shield on the front like most ACAVs was that it interfered with the 106mm RR.

Here is the link to that thread:

www.modelersalliance.org/forum/just-like...es-vietnam-july-1967

Most modelers tend to think that every track in Vietnam was equipped with a full set of ACAV shields. For the most part in Cavalry units, the majority of the tracks were equipped with full sets, but in Mechanized Infantry units you could see tracks with no shields, to partial sets, to full sets. It depended on the time period as in the beginning of the troop buildup the priority for ACAV shields went to Cavalry units first and then were distributed as available to other types of units.

My main advice is to figure out what unit and time period you want to depict. If there is a specific track you want to depict, try to obtain as many photos as possible of it from different angles. Perhaps read about some personal accounts or get in contact with a unit member, or better yet, a crew member of the track being depicted. This will help you figure out which version to build (M113 had smaller gas tank and white interior; M113A1 had the larger fuel tank with a very light green interior).


Keep in mind that not every track in Vietnam was equipped with ACAV shields. Most Mechanized Infantry units used whatever they were able to get their hands on, so in those types of units you may see all kinds of unique configurations (which I think make for more interesting models).

Good luck on your project and I hope to see your in-progress photos.

Cheers,
James
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Which M-113 Variant in Vietnam? 12 Feb 2020 16:44 #8

Thanks James. That helps a lot.

Cheers
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Which M-113 Variant in Vietnam? 15 Feb 2020 15:18 #9

Do you need some pictures from Nam? I have some from 3/4 Cav. based at Cu Chi :oldguy Gary XXXXV XX XX
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Which M-113 Variant in Vietnam? 16 Feb 2020 14:56 #10

centaur567 wrote:
Do you need some pictures from Nam? I have some from 3/4 Cav. based at Cu Chi :oldguy Gary XXXXV XX XX

If he don't, I'd like to see them, Gary.

Cheers,
James
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Which M-113 Variant in Vietnam? 18 Feb 2020 15:13 #11

Sorry for the delay fellows. I was out winter camping since Saturday and got hit with two snowfalls which made riding the MTB with its 26" x 2.125" knobby tires on the trails and then on the rail-trail rather interesting.

I have some images of Vietnam Era M-113s but am always interested in better quality historically accurte ones.

Thanks and cheers
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